whomewhy:rockemsockemrocket:comedycentral:Click here to watch Kristen Schaal and Jon Stewart discuss

whomewhy:rockemsockemrocket:comedycentral:Click here to watch Kristen Schaal and Jon Stewart discuss the future of wage equality on The Daily Show.LOLOLOL transmisogyny is hilarious.Any wage equality argument - or any “feminist” argument, for that matter - that rests on “If I, a women, had convex genitals, I would suddenly be a man and therefore get treated better” is 100% dependent on the assumption that trans women a) don’t exist, b) are men, and/or c) benefit from misogyny against cis women. Want some facts? So the frequently touted statistic in wage gap arguments is that women make 78 cents for every dollar their male counterparts make. There’s some good breakdown of how that plays out for women of color here, including figures as compared to men of the same race as well as compared to white men.The National Transgender Discrimination Survey doesn’t separate out statistics for trans people as a class vs. trans women, or by race or sexual orientation, for most of its statistics, so some of this is going to have to be extrapolated a little bit. Bear with me, and let’s remember that intersections of oppression are frickin’ exponential, so whatever sort of numbers we can extrapolate, the reality is probably a lot worse. The studies cited here and here state that trans men tend to experience a small increase in pay upon (though I hate this phrase) “transitioning at work”, while trans women tend to experience a decrease in earnings of 32%. (Here’s the study - note that it’s from 2006 and uses a lot of obsolete and potentially hurtful language.) If we’re going to take the simplest possible version of these numbers, that means that taken as a class, trans women of all races make at most about 65 cents on that fabled cis male dollar, or 83 cents on the dollar of cis women’s wages.Also, the NTDS tells us that trans unemployment is about twice the rate of the general population (14% where the general population’s rate is 7%) while 44% of trans people would describe themselves as “underemployed.” The survey results have a breakdown of unemployment and underemployment by race and gender as well, so we can see that these numbers are incredibly stratified by both of those things - the unemployment rate for the black trans population of survey respondents was 28%, for example. Also, for those trans people who are employed, the survey shows 15% of the population making under $10,000, which is four times the general population. Not all of the statistics in the NTDS are broken down by gender, but those that are show a significant gender gap. Trans women responding to the survey were between 25% more likely and twice as likely as trans men to report things like job loss, hiring discrimination or denial of promotions, participation in underground economies or sex work. There’s also a dearth of breakdown by race, but it’s safe to say that these statistics are skewed along that axis as well.I’m not even going to start on lack of employment protections and the need to pass inclusive ENDAs on state and federal levels, but that information is easy to find if you want it. Here’s an article that goes through a lot of this from back when Sarah Silverman made this exact same joke last year. (Only they did a more thorough job of breaking down the math than I did, I think.)The point is that both Silverman and Schaal decided that the concept of attaching a dick to a woman in order to transform her into a man was such a hilarious way of illustrating the gender wage gap that it was worth totally disregarding the large scale crisis that is the employment situation for actual, living, suffering trans people.And the point is that the same attitudes that make every comedian ever think it’s totally hilarious to make trans women always the butts of cruel jokes, and always in such a way as to violently misgender them and deny their realities, are the exact same attitudes that make employers think it’s okay to reject, fire, harass, and abuse them. And laughing at those jokes is condoning that violence. And it’s long past time to stop.If you click those links, the numbers don’t match the ones you gave at all. You made up a lot of the numbers you provided and the actual results of those studies do not support your viewpoint near as strongly.I agree that a wage gap exists in the workplace, that racism combines with gender to greatly worsen outcomes for trans people of color, that trans women tend to make less money and face much more discrimination after coming out, which includes unemployment and homelessness for many, and that this is the result of misogyny and transphobia, which is normalized by transphobia in media.however, the sources you provided directly contradict your assertion that trans women as a class make less money than trans men or, according to your second link (which is too small to be very valuable), even make less than cis women. you either barely skimmed them or deliberately skewed it. I would encourage you and anyone else interested to read through both studies.The transgender discrimination survey actually does separate trans women and trans men for income, read the employment chapter. Findings indicated that a smaller wage gap does still exist, but it favors trans women. 58% of trans women report household incomes under 50k. 66% of trans men report household incomes under 50k. In every category from <10k to <50k, there are more trans men. In every category from >50k to >100k, there are more trans women. The differences are consistently small, with the largest being 14% of trans women’s households making over 100k versus 9% of trans men’s households making over 100k.It also separates them in job loss (FTM= 19%, MTF= 36%), hiring discrimination (FTM= 40%, MTF= 55%), denial of promotions (FTM= 18%, MTF= 29%), underemployment (FTM= 42%, MTF= 50%), drug dealing (FTM= 10%, MTF= 8%), and sex work (FTM= 7%, MTF= 15%). NONE of these show the difference you described- “between 25% more likely and twice as likely”, which was phrased in a way that implied double was greater than 25%. Trans women were 8% more likely to perform sex work, which is the only disparity technically more than double, but far below a 25% difference. In addition, all of these categories DO have racial data breakdowns right near the gender breakdowns, all of which indicate racism is a huge factor. For example, out of all the transgender people who reported performing sex work, 6% were white, with 44% of those remaining being black, despite black transgender respondents representing 5% of the total respondents. The actual data still has significance, as it does seem like trans women experience more employment discrimination, presumably because of the combination of transphobia and misogyny they face, but you substituted actual data for gross exaggeration.In the smaller study, the trans women with college degrees involved were found to make $30 an hour on average before transition, while the average hourly salary for college educated women in general is $24. Pre-transition trans men with college degrees made $23 an hour. Men with degrees, in general, made $36 an hour.Before transition, trans women without degrees made $22 an hour, while trans men made $13. Men in general made $18 an hour, and women in general made $14. After transition, trans men averaged a $1 raise, while trans women averaged a $3 pay cut. This definitely does support the (already established) existence of a wage gap and, very likely, of homophobia, as many trans people are visibly gender nonconforming long before coming out. However, even after transition, the trans women involved in this survey still made more money than the trans men and the averages for similar women in general. Your sources do not support the degree of discrimination you are stating they support, when described accurately. They support a still important but lesser degree, and more strongly illustrate racism.  I also disagree about whether it’s wrong for anyone to generalize when talking about gender/genital combinations in ways that don’t describe a lot of trans people, especially when the person associating penises with manhood- something cis men have always done as part of devaluing womanhood- is a woman discussing misogyny… and not actually bringing up trans women in any way, just using a penis, which men use to represent manhood, to represent male privilege. Sarah Silverman’s thing was definitely fucked up, specifically saying a sex change would help, but I don’t know about the first one. Jon Stewart is a comedy show and she made a joke that didn’t target trans women by name, it used a disembodied penis (it went from printed out of a 3d printer to slapped on a counter, no mention of attachment to her was mentioned?) to represent male privilege in a way that didnt acknowledge trans women existing. She missed an opportunity to discuss transphobia for sure, but I don’t think she perpetuated it that much more than anyone else not talking about transphobia at any given time. It’s not saying that only men have dicks to reference that almost all men have dicks.  I don’t think that cis women are obligated to always put transphobia ahead of misogyny when they discuss it, but thats a different and slightly more subjective conversation. whats not subjective is that you blatantly lied about the information contained in your sources in order to drive home your point. -- source link

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